Appotus Dominus

[Righteous]

Whatever one's political leanings, there is agreement that the economy and in particular financial institutions are hurting.

The CHALLENGE is this: What is the best way to minimize the negative impact of a downturn in the economy and how to strengthen the financial system?

Regarding the question of whether massive government spending will stimulate the economy, Tad DeHaven over at Cato@Liberty has this response:

" Isn’t spending tons of money exactly what government at all levels has been doing in recent years? According to U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis numbers, combined federal, state, and local expenditures in 2000 were an already unhealthy 30% of GDP. Eight years and two recessions later, government spending now sucks up 35% of the nation’s economy and is trending higher. During that time we have witnessed the first $2 trillion federal budget and the first $3 trillion dollar budget.

With all the money federal, state, and local governments have been spending shouldn’t we be experiencing a boom? It would seem to me that proponents of government spending as a cure for our economic cold have it backward.

The feds have increased spending by over 50% since Bush took office. Why, then, is the only solution to this mess to increase spending even further?"

The average economic downturn and/or recession lasts from 5 to 11 months, and corrects ITSELF. In a recession, unproductive and weak businesses fold, their assets are bought up by profitable and effective companies, and the economy grows again. It self corrects.

Adding to the country's DEBT LOAD, expanding GOVERNMENT (which is inefficient and lacks accountability), and propping up FAILING COMPANIES will only delay the recovery and likely make the downturn worse. Japan came to this conclusion after its devastating economic collapse in the 1990's. Their Government "intervened" with massive spending in hopes of "stimulating" the economy. Their own analysis now shows that their actions actually LENGTHENED the problems.

The HUGE issue I have with this SPENDING bill, is that the public's money is being given to prop up FAILING businesses (in some cases FRAUDULENT companies). If this passes, the taxpayer will be PAYING FOR THE IRRESPONSIBILITY of other's reckless failing business and personal finance decisions. We will be ENABLING BAD BUSINESSES TO CONTINUE TO BE UNPROFITABLE.

As much as 85% of what is now a 1.3 Trillion spending package (including interest) will NOT BE SPENT FOR 3-5 years. ONLY 8% WILL BE SPENT IN 2009! How is that "stimulus"? The reality is that much of this bill is NOT stimulus. Instead, it seems many pet projects of the Democratic party are included in this spending proposal.

It should be renamed the "Generational Theft Act" since our children will be paying for this if it passes. How much money is this? The amount is equivalent to giving every unemployed person in the United States roughly $75,000. Or, enough for every person who had lost a job and is now passing through long-term unemployment of six months or longer to receive roughly $300,000.

There should be NO RUSH to pass this bill this week. Let people (the public) have a chance to READ AND UNDERSTAND this before there is a vote. It is HUNDREDS of pages long (680 + at last count). As a matter of public accountability, we should have the OPPORTUNITY TO READ IT and analyze it BEFORE WE ARE EXPECTED TO SADDLE THE NEXT GENERATION with the responsibility to pay for it.

Righteous
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MAGELO
Appotus Dominus

[Righteous]

What is actually being funded by this "stimulus" package?

Here is a partial list of what is being funded:

** There's $1 billion for Amtrak, the federal railroad that hasn't turned a profit in 40 years;

** $2 billion for child-care subsidies;

** $50 million for that great engine of job creation, the National Endowment for the Arts;

** $400 million for global-warming research and another $2.4 billion for carbon-capture demonstration projects.

** $650 million on top of the billions already doled out to pay for digital TV conversion coupons.

** In selling the plan, President Obama has said this bill will make "dramatic investments to revive our flagging economy." Yet some $30 billion, or less than 5% of the spending in the bill, is for fixing bridges or other highway projects.

** There's another $40 billion for broadband and electric grid development, airports and clean water projects that are arguably worthwhile priorities.

** Roughly $20 billion for business tax cuts

** Only $90 billion out of $825 billion, or about 12 cents of every $1, is for something that can plausibly be considered a growth stimulus. And even many of these projects aren't likely to help the economy immediately. As Peter Orszag, the President's new budget director, told Congress a year ago, "even those [public works] that are 'on the shelf' generally cannot be undertaken quickly enough to provide timely stimulus to the economy."

** Renewable energy funding ($8 billion)

** Mass transit ($6 billion) that has a low or negative return on investment. Most urban transit systems are so badly managed that their fares cover less than half of their costs. However, the people who operate these systems belong to public-employee unions that are campaign contributors to the Democratic Party.

** Congress wants to spend $600 million more for the federal government to buy new cars. Uncle Sam already spends $3 billion a year on its fleet of 600,000 vehicles.

** Congress also wants to spend $7 billion for modernizing federal buildings and facilities. The Smithsonian is targeted to receive $150 million; we love the Smithsonian, too, but this is a job creator?

** Another "stimulus" secret is that some $252 billion is for income-transfer payments -- that is, not investments that arguably help everyone, but cash or benefits to individuals for doing nothing at all.

** There's $81 billion for Medicaid, $36 billion for expanded unemployment benefits, $20 billion for food stamps, and $83 billion for the earned income credit for people who don't pay income tax. While some of that may be justified to help poorer Americans ride out the recession, they aren't job creators.

** As for the promise of accountability, some $54 billion will go to federal programs that the Office of Management and Budget or the Government Accountability Office have already criticized as "ineffective" or unable to pass basic financial audits. These include the Economic Development Administration, the Small Business Administration, the 10 federal job training programs, and many more.

** Education would get $66 billion more. That's more than the entire Education Department spent a mere 10 years ago and is on top of the doubling under President Bush.

** Some $6 billion of this will subsidize university building projects. If you think the intention here is to help kids learn, the House declares on page 257 that "No recipient . . . shall use such funds to provide financial assistance to students to attend private elementary or secondary schools." Horrors: Some money might go to nonunion teachers.



This is only a partial list of what the "stimulus" money is targeted for. Again, my view is that WE NEED TO TAKE WHATEVER TIME IS NEEDED to understand FULLY where the money is going.

If there is such URGENCY to avoid an "economic catastrophy" as the President is saying, then take out the 10% of the package that would be spent in 2009, and pass that immediately as a separate bill. Give the PUBLIC the TIME THEY REQUIRE to review the other 90%.

Righteous
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MAGELO
Appotus Dominus

[Mandaar]

Nothing here.

[IowaGnome]

Wow this is some seriously retarded red neck conservative drivel.

There is a ridiculous mess that was created by an inept leader and his inept party.

Even if Obama fails he's lucky enough that everyone will still roll it up and put it on Bush's neck, where it belongs. It's what happens when you put a total moron into one of the most powerful leadership roles in the world...well he ruins the world.

Pork will create jobs, pork will keep people working, pork will be wasteful. But what other options are there right now? You going to let the whole thing fall apart without trying anything? You going to let, arguably, the greatest nation in the world fall apart on hopes that stopping spending will some how create a long term solution out of the nightmare that will occur? Dream on. Economists cant figure out how to fix it, how the fuck do you think a bunch of lawyers (politicians) are going to do?

We are fucked if we do and raped if we don't. I prefer to get laid.
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[Stryffe]

[Teklan]

[dnief]

There is no conspiracy. Leaders of this country are out in the open calling for a new world order. They make the crisis and then consolidate power to solve the crisis. Crisis to them is OPPORTUNITY. THATS WHY its happening.

It's PROBLEM, REACTION, SOLUTION

Create the problem, get a sheeple REACTION, provide the SOLUTION.

In this case one world Government is the final solution where you pay your carbon taxes to the bankers.

Teklan it's not reasonable to you because you don't research it or open up your eyes that it's possible. I posted why the states are threatening leaving the union. Did you bother to read any of the bills I posted??

The states legislatures are close to it and that's why they are countering whats about to happen with open threats to leave the union. They see first hand what bills the federal government is bringing to the table. they are not good. I can tell you that. I suggest you all stack up on ammo.

[Teklan]

[Stryffe]

[Righteous]

[Teklan]

[quote="Righteous"]

[Righteous]

[Teklan]

[Teklan]

[Righteous]

[Teklan]

[Righteous]

[Teklan]

[Righteous]

[Righteous]

Here are ADDITIONAL ITEMS that are being lobbied to add to the "stimulus" Bill.

From the Wall Street Journal:

On Monday, the U.S. Conference of Mayors went to Capitol Hill to ask for a handout, or as they put it: "We are reporting that in 427 cities of all sizes in all regions of the country, a total of 11,391 infrastructure projects are 'ready to go.' These projects represent an infrastructure investment of $73,163,299,303 that would be capable of producing an estimated 847,641 jobs in 2009 and 2010."

A wish list that is 11,391 projects strong! What vital infrastructure projects would cash-strapped taxpayers get for their $73 billion?

Here's a sampling:

- Hercules, Calif., wants $2.5 million in hard-earned taxpayer money for a "Waterfront Duck Pond Park," and another $200,000 for a dog park.

- Euless, Texas, wants $15 million for the Midway Park Family Life Center, which, you'll be glad to note, includes both a senior center and aquatic facility.

- Natchez, Miss., "needs" a new $9.5 million sports complex "which would allow our city to host major regional and national sports tournaments."

- Henderson, Nev., is asking for $20 million to help "develop a 60 acre multi-use sports field complex."

- Brigham City, Utah, wants $15 million for a sports park.

- Arlington, Texas, needs $4 million to expand its tennis center.

- Miami, Fla., needs $15 million for a "Moore Park Community Center, Tennis Center and Day Care" facility. The city is also desperate for $3.6 million to build a covered basketball court and a new tennis court at Robert King High Park. Then there's the $94 million Orange Bowl parking garage you are being asked to pay for.

- La Porte, Texas, wants $7.6 million for a "Life Style Center." And Oakland, Calif., needs $1 million for Fruitvale Latino Cultural and Performing Arts Center.

Serious Pork.

Righteous

Original Article here:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122887075956093233.html

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MAGELO
Appotus Dominus